I learned Italian to fluency in college, partially by living and speaking only Italian for 18 months. I had only taken 2 years of “liberal arts college” Italian before I went.
I remember learning all those verb tenses in class, and then being shocked that nobody actually uses most of them in speech. I spent so much time trying to purposefully execute each verb tense in my speech. The path to fluency, though, came with letting go of written conventions and using the language that was most accessible to my tongue. The complex verb tenses came naturally to my speech in about 6months. They came into my spoken language more through reading and writing than gaining facility through speech.
(Or, hilariously, certain regions of Italy would be obsessed with very specific aspects of grammar. Italian speakers in certain regions of Italy (Florence especially) will use the supposed unspoken historical past in common language, to speak about their childhood. It’s actually hilarious when you think about it. It’s very cheeky. Florentines are fun with language.)
Florentines also love a Lei. Almost comically. It’s endearing. What really helped me bridge the gap between perceived impoliteness and speaking fluency is using the Lei strategically. I always used it very showily during the first time I address an elder to demonstrate I know Italian and its grammar conventions. Then I switched to “tu” in every subsequent time. People know I’m not a native Italian speaker, and the ability to even speak Italian as a foreigner conveys a TON of respect, especially to professionals who probably know English. Because I look very Italian, I sometimes joke witg people, in Italian, that I’m a stupid American and can they please help me. This is an obvious joke, and it really helps break the tension of my obvious non-native speaking and my native appearance.
So much of my journey to fluency was giving up the verbal precision that I was used to in English. Verbal fluency is about ease of producing the language, not producing the perfect phrasing l.
I’m almost 40, and use my Italian rarely, but I’m still quasi fluent because I can just go up to someone and easily describe what I need, even if I don’t have the words. Part of this derives from learning to use what language I had, instead of attempting to conjure the perfect words.
That's amazing! It sounds like you have a gift for languages! I don't - and even when I don't speak Italian for a day feel like it's slipping away from me. ha! Yes, in the north people don't use the passato remoto in conversation but my brother-in-law is from Tuscany and does. So brilliant that you picked up on all the regional differences as well which make the language even more fun!
I was at the doctors office Saturday and I used Lei with the receptionist who was younger than me. I thought since this was a formal situation it would be polite. The people after me used TU! I guess it’s better to start with Lei, my acupuncturist said “let’s use tu” with each other and I thought that was nice 😊
The acupuncturist did the kind thing to put you at ease! That sounds like a good one. I think you did the right thing by using lei at the doctors office! I wonder if the people behind you knew her? My partner always says "I've never had dinner with them! why are them giving me the tu?!"
Yes!! That’s a brilliant idea! Also listening to the radio or audiobooks even when not concert rating or understanding. Our brains will learn the cadence.
I always say that my friends who have an Italian mother in law speak the best Italian! My husband is American so neither of us had something that forced us to speak Italian in quite the same way.
Haha! Italian mother-in-laws are very curious and with that comes patience. That is a wonderful gift they bring to the table. I'm glad you like the video. I recently discovered this teacher and see she also has weekly news videos, breakdowns of cultural items like healthcare - really great stuff!
Thank you for sharing this very interesting perspective on how language impacts the reality of life, confirming that it's a key aspect of someone's culture.
I'm Italian (I lived about the same amount of time in both the South, Puglia, and the North, Lombardia) and, to answer your question, the "imbalance" you mention, I think it depends on where in Italy your mother-in-law was from.
I'm of course making a broad generalisation here because in the end it really depends on the person, but if she was from the North of Italy, then the "imbalance" was probably more evident than if she was from the South of Italy.
This is because in the North they tend to be more formal with the language (although in some regions of the South - like Campania and Sicilia - some of them use the formal "Voi", which is even more formal than "Lei").
In any case, I wouldn't consider it a "mistake" at all. I know of many situations where the mother-in-law uses "tu" and the child-in-law uses "Lei" – and I'm speaking amongst Italians.
On the contrary, it's admirable that you wanted to improve and made the most of the real opportunities you had to practise.
Such a valuable article. I’d taken Italian in high school (molti anni fa!), and when I picked it up in 2024 with Duolingo, I left formal conatructs beyond Duo’s infrequent usages in the dust. Thank you for the wake-up call!
Yahooo! So happy to have spurred renewed interest in picking up your Italiano again! I love Duolingo and am studying French on it now. Duo is always waiting for you ;-)
Firstly I’d like to say that I’m so sorry you had preeclampsia, I had it too with my son both during the pregnancy and postpartum and it is so incredibly difficult.
As a native Spanish speaker I can totally relate to your point, we also have a formal you and informal you and it’s incredibly important to be able to communicate in both. There’s more nuance to the culture once you have that understanding.
Ugh you had preeclampsia too! I'm so sorry. Did it leave you with high blood pressure? I still have it 14 years later. I think you explained the situation better than I did "there's more nuance to the culture once you have that understanding". 100%. And also by understanding and using that difference in the appropriate situations, you're participating in the culture as an insider rather than an outsider who doesn't get it.
I had high pressure for 6 weeks postpartum but it slowly went away. I’m sorry you are still dealing with it, at least though medication can help (I couldn’t take any while being pregnant).
And you’re spot on about participating in the culture as opposed to an outsider!
Really enjoyed this, I could totally see myself being the same as you, 8 months pregnant and still scrambling to become fluent in — in my case spanish, yours Italian. I suppose if the third person formal was a particular sticking point for you, it would have been useful, but I don't know that I would have been so open to it if it was going to put me on unequal footing with my MIL for the long term. Have you guys been able to get back to a normal dynamic?
My first boyfriend had grown up around North Beach in San Francisco and even I was worried about Tu and Lei and trying to figure out what his mom would expect of me if we got married and had kids… I can’t even imagine the level of anxiety of being actually in Italy
Oh Christina, thank you for getting it!! Your comment makes me feel better and eases my self-criticism about any anxiety. :-) It's a wild ride with another language. Do you still speak Italiano?
I really admire your determination to not only speak Italian but to do so politely! I can't say I was the same way. For me, it was more about mimicking what I saw being done towards me, as that helped set an example of what I should be doing. I should probably give it more thought, but luckily, we're just on the cusp of Southern Italy, where there's less pressure to be absolutely correct with formal vs. informal language (thanks to the relaxed vibe here).
This is so interesting - the difference between regions! Thank you for sharing this, Cassandra. It might also be that I was pushed to speak more formally because I'd transferred from the NYC office to Milan of a large consulting company and felt compelling to address my clients appropriately. Do you have work needs for language too?
I love the description of speaking non-fluent Italian being like doing math in your head. As someone who only visits (often) as a traveler, that is exactly what it feels like. And as someone who hates making mistakes but pushes through regardless, this is the most frustrating part!
I'm so relieved someone else could relate to that! I really found the necessary agreement of all the verbs, pronouns, and adjectives to be like swimming in math soup at first. I still make lots of mistakes depending on the day. It's hardest when I realize the mistake immediately after I said it but it's out there and just no point in stopping the conversation. ;-) It's awesome that you push through too!
Thank you, Jo! I loved reading about how you pushed yourself with that B1 exam! I thought that was very clever to create a goal requiring you to step up your language game. x
I learned Italian to fluency in college, partially by living and speaking only Italian for 18 months. I had only taken 2 years of “liberal arts college” Italian before I went.
I remember learning all those verb tenses in class, and then being shocked that nobody actually uses most of them in speech. I spent so much time trying to purposefully execute each verb tense in my speech. The path to fluency, though, came with letting go of written conventions and using the language that was most accessible to my tongue. The complex verb tenses came naturally to my speech in about 6months. They came into my spoken language more through reading and writing than gaining facility through speech.
(Or, hilariously, certain regions of Italy would be obsessed with very specific aspects of grammar. Italian speakers in certain regions of Italy (Florence especially) will use the supposed unspoken historical past in common language, to speak about their childhood. It’s actually hilarious when you think about it. It’s very cheeky. Florentines are fun with language.)
Florentines also love a Lei. Almost comically. It’s endearing. What really helped me bridge the gap between perceived impoliteness and speaking fluency is using the Lei strategically. I always used it very showily during the first time I address an elder to demonstrate I know Italian and its grammar conventions. Then I switched to “tu” in every subsequent time. People know I’m not a native Italian speaker, and the ability to even speak Italian as a foreigner conveys a TON of respect, especially to professionals who probably know English. Because I look very Italian, I sometimes joke witg people, in Italian, that I’m a stupid American and can they please help me. This is an obvious joke, and it really helps break the tension of my obvious non-native speaking and my native appearance.
So much of my journey to fluency was giving up the verbal precision that I was used to in English. Verbal fluency is about ease of producing the language, not producing the perfect phrasing l.
I’m almost 40, and use my Italian rarely, but I’m still quasi fluent because I can just go up to someone and easily describe what I need, even if I don’t have the words. Part of this derives from learning to use what language I had, instead of attempting to conjure the perfect words.
That's amazing! It sounds like you have a gift for languages! I don't - and even when I don't speak Italian for a day feel like it's slipping away from me. ha! Yes, in the north people don't use the passato remoto in conversation but my brother-in-law is from Tuscany and does. So brilliant that you picked up on all the regional differences as well which make the language even more fun!
I was at the doctors office Saturday and I used Lei with the receptionist who was younger than me. I thought since this was a formal situation it would be polite. The people after me used TU! I guess it’s better to start with Lei, my acupuncturist said “let’s use tu” with each other and I thought that was nice 😊
The acupuncturist did the kind thing to put you at ease! That sounds like a good one. I think you did the right thing by using lei at the doctors office! I wonder if the people behind you knew her? My partner always says "I've never had dinner with them! why are them giving me the tu?!"
Haha, I say something similar - Abbiamo mai mangiato insieme?
try listening to spoken language recordngs at night...fall to sleep listening. It works.
Yes!! That’s a brilliant idea! Also listening to the radio or audiobooks even when not concert rating or understanding. Our brains will learn the cadence.
I always say that my friends who have an Italian mother in law speak the best Italian! My husband is American so neither of us had something that forced us to speak Italian in quite the same way.
Thanks for the video!
Haha! Italian mother-in-laws are very curious and with that comes patience. That is a wonderful gift they bring to the table. I'm glad you like the video. I recently discovered this teacher and see she also has weekly news videos, breakdowns of cultural items like healthcare - really great stuff!
Thank you for sharing this very interesting perspective on how language impacts the reality of life, confirming that it's a key aspect of someone's culture.
I'm Italian (I lived about the same amount of time in both the South, Puglia, and the North, Lombardia) and, to answer your question, the "imbalance" you mention, I think it depends on where in Italy your mother-in-law was from.
I'm of course making a broad generalisation here because in the end it really depends on the person, but if she was from the North of Italy, then the "imbalance" was probably more evident than if she was from the South of Italy.
This is because in the North they tend to be more formal with the language (although in some regions of the South - like Campania and Sicilia - some of them use the formal "Voi", which is even more formal than "Lei").
In any case, I wouldn't consider it a "mistake" at all. I know of many situations where the mother-in-law uses "tu" and the child-in-law uses "Lei" – and I'm speaking amongst Italians.
On the contrary, it's admirable that you wanted to improve and made the most of the real opportunities you had to practise.
So, well done. 😊
Such a valuable article. I’d taken Italian in high school (molti anni fa!), and when I picked it up in 2024 with Duolingo, I left formal conatructs beyond Duo’s infrequent usages in the dust. Thank you for the wake-up call!
Yahooo! So happy to have spurred renewed interest in picking up your Italiano again! I love Duolingo and am studying French on it now. Duo is always waiting for you ;-)
Firstly I’d like to say that I’m so sorry you had preeclampsia, I had it too with my son both during the pregnancy and postpartum and it is so incredibly difficult.
As a native Spanish speaker I can totally relate to your point, we also have a formal you and informal you and it’s incredibly important to be able to communicate in both. There’s more nuance to the culture once you have that understanding.
Ugh you had preeclampsia too! I'm so sorry. Did it leave you with high blood pressure? I still have it 14 years later. I think you explained the situation better than I did "there's more nuance to the culture once you have that understanding". 100%. And also by understanding and using that difference in the appropriate situations, you're participating in the culture as an insider rather than an outsider who doesn't get it.
I had high pressure for 6 weeks postpartum but it slowly went away. I’m sorry you are still dealing with it, at least though medication can help (I couldn’t take any while being pregnant).
And you’re spot on about participating in the culture as opposed to an outsider!
Really enjoyed this, I could totally see myself being the same as you, 8 months pregnant and still scrambling to become fluent in — in my case spanish, yours Italian. I suppose if the third person formal was a particular sticking point for you, it would have been useful, but I don't know that I would have been so open to it if it was going to put me on unequal footing with my MIL for the long term. Have you guys been able to get back to a normal dynamic?
Well I’m divorced now so it’s not so important 😉 How’s your Spanish going? I was in Valencia 30 years ago. Looks like a wonderful place to settle
My first boyfriend had grown up around North Beach in San Francisco and even I was worried about Tu and Lei and trying to figure out what his mom would expect of me if we got married and had kids… I can’t even imagine the level of anxiety of being actually in Italy
Oh Christina, thank you for getting it!! Your comment makes me feel better and eases my self-criticism about any anxiety. :-) It's a wild ride with another language. Do you still speak Italiano?
I really admire your determination to not only speak Italian but to do so politely! I can't say I was the same way. For me, it was more about mimicking what I saw being done towards me, as that helped set an example of what I should be doing. I should probably give it more thought, but luckily, we're just on the cusp of Southern Italy, where there's less pressure to be absolutely correct with formal vs. informal language (thanks to the relaxed vibe here).
This is so interesting - the difference between regions! Thank you for sharing this, Cassandra. It might also be that I was pushed to speak more formally because I'd transferred from the NYC office to Milan of a large consulting company and felt compelling to address my clients appropriately. Do you have work needs for language too?
I wish I had an Italian MIL! Not only a fast track to fluency but you get all the secret family recipes too.
YES!!! She was an absolute legend 💛
Impressive stuff, Lolly! Well done!
Thanks so much for your encouragement, Jo! 💕It’s definitely a journey learning a language, isn’t it? How is your Italiano progressing?
I love the description of speaking non-fluent Italian being like doing math in your head. As someone who only visits (often) as a traveler, that is exactly what it feels like. And as someone who hates making mistakes but pushes through regardless, this is the most frustrating part!
I'm so relieved someone else could relate to that! I really found the necessary agreement of all the verbs, pronouns, and adjectives to be like swimming in math soup at first. I still make lots of mistakes depending on the day. It's hardest when I realize the mistake immediately after I said it but it's out there and just no point in stopping the conversation. ;-) It's awesome that you push through too!
Always Lei!!!
Grazie for the vote of support, Judy!! x
Thank you, Jo! I loved reading about how you pushed yourself with that B1 exam! I thought that was very clever to create a goal requiring you to step up your language game. x